Watch this webinar with Dan Pollard the theory behind what motivates people and understanding different behaviour types
Transcript:
Morning good morning. We'll give it a couple of minutes before we start. It's going to be a very intense Allah so I would encourage you all to get a glass of water and the really will start at 12 or 1. I hope you all had a good with us with us. Good Here New Zealand could have some rain fill the dams but kind of states also see the end of all the great weather. Today's today's signing. It was foggy this morning. Blue skies it's lovely. Australia's doing well. So the topic is building a positive workplace culture. I'm going to require all your attention. So if you can like off you find and close your doors and get yourself comfortable. I guarantee you it will be very, very maybe life changed by Sydney life challenging by the end. So you want to be a real place we can listen. So we'll give it to you. But 1 minute before we kick off. But I will start. Not sure who is and who knows. But I always got kind of start if you're new. It's your first time here. Who am I. So on the slides, they say. So this is me. I'm still doing a big renovation at home. This is me do this in a few weeks ago, but I'm dean Pollard founder of figures long time trading in the trading since I was 17. I'm head of quite a few businesses. I had two, someone doesn't make it and Last one was very successful. Got to five staff and two in two branches and sold it. And it was a relatively easy business to run. Full of challenges. But not too stressful. And then I saw it focus on focus full time. And then has 45 staff now and in two countries. And it's a great business to run as well. So I know a lot about how to run a business. Now after I had to hire businesses that didn't work the two very successful businesses that have work. And there's two other one. So we'll start right. As mentioned, it's going to be a full on hours probably end run over. Please do you have a glass of water and be comfortable. I would ask of you if you really want to learn this wonderful. But this is a very deep theoretical deep psychological discussion. And if you really want to get the hang of how to grow a business that works fundamentally one shift change. I would really encourage you to place yourself lines close your doors be free of distractions. Be comfortable because that's what I'm going to try and do is really, really challenging all of your mindsets. Right So these are the topics right. How do we motivate people. So let's start at the foundation is always is as I always thought so I always thought about the series of deep foundations and then we moved to the practical examples at the end. Mike so the problem is how do we get the stops to do the right thing willingly. So help. How can we get willing workers, people to do the thing willingly right because without people we have nothing as though people are the cornerstone of our business. So how do we get people to do the right thing voluntarily. And so this talk will be about how that actually happens and how that's possible. So you don't want to run a business that's carrot and stick approach this. If that's the only approach you have you're always going to have a straightforward business. So my premise is that I want the least stressful business that's possible to have and to have the least stressful business. It's possible to have you want to you want you people doing all the work voluntarily because they just want to do the right thing. So if there's this sort of business that you want to run then this talk is about how to achieve that if you want to run a business that's carrot and stick and stressful then that's what got when it was not for you. Right OK. So the problem is how do we get staff to do the right thing willingly. So the foundation of that is it's an understanding and accepting that people are ruled by emotions not by the logic people are emotional. So let's talk. It's going to be deep and philosophical. It's not about whether they should fill out forms or cheapness or should do as they told it's not about that. It's about how to count. Can we get voluntary compliance. So do you hear that saying you give a person efficiency you feed them for a dietician to fish feed them forever. That's what I'm going to try and do here in my body into the alley a bit longer. Yes I should have given you the foundations on which to build employee engagement from the foundations. But you say you have a lot of thinking to do and action required and trial and error to get it right. And the reason I say this. I know from my experience of changing myself and helping other businesses to change this mindset is takes a powerful commitment internal XML development to bring it to fruition in your business. So the outcome. What I want from my businesses is one where all people do what is required because they want to, not because they have to are afraid of the consequences will have justified why you're awful and they can be poor performance. So I can't let that sink in. I wanted to have. Don't people, businesses we people do the right thing consistently. So it starts with a fundamental concept that people are good right people are good people. I also going to constantly let you down. And that's OK as well. So everyone is doing the best I can with the skill set they have right. It's that saying if they could they would if I could do that. They would do better. But what you get from people is actually the base. They are able to be in that moment. There are very few people come to work to be annoying and disruptive and do the wrong thing. You've been literally getting the beast that facing King at that time. So you let that sink in no one comes to what extent your life miserable or do bad work or to give outcomes. It really comes to work is trying to do the piece to improve their lot in life. Right however and this is a really big however. A lot of what people bring to work and deliver is really subpar and below par and just downright difficult to deal with. And so herein lies the actual problem. So this is the actual problem that we're going to sort of start to deal with the people. It's called confirmation bias or self-delusion so this critical thought problem needs to be put into some words and some and some structure do you understand. So you have to find a way to put a structural framework in that mitigates people's confirmation bias and self delusion. Right how hell how can we sort of work with people's emotions and get them to do the right thing. OK So the issue becomes this people a good people do some subpar outcomes all the time. And therefore, people are annoying. Right So there is the mindset that we can get second to this stuff. You know the good that we subpar work there annoying people people are annoying. So why people like this. Why but why we all like this. Why are we why are we all hypocrites like all of us. I have a critical eye on him on. I am hypocritical. We all are. We have technology old. We all do the things that we know we shouldn't do we all don't go to the gym every day. We all don't eat well we all don't exercise and we all are not as honest as we could be we all. All of us like ourselves and every day. And so the struggle is always doing what you should. This is what you want. And this is the foundational struggle of what are the stakes to be human right. And so this human condition is being summed up in an awful phrase not mine. It is called the pleasure principle versus the reality principle. So doing what you should. This is what you do. And so pleasure means doing what you want in what feels good. What if it gives your body and brain that endorphin hit. So whether it's exercise movies whatever. No reality is life. Next stress cortisol in the body doesn't like this feeling. The body is motivated by pleasure feelings. It is motivated by avoiding pain feelings right. So this is the emotional struggle going on in people. Instead of giving the practical example of it. Let's say on pinching you're really hard in this pain. One pension you've really had on your forearm and the same. And I've got a nice chocolate, your favorite suite in this of the two. What is the greater motivator. Are you going to move towards moist. The sweet in the seat where are you going to move away from the pain. The pain is the greater motivator between pain and pleasure. People are more motivated by avoiding pain than moving towards pleasure need to think about them. So in your work situation people need money to survive. If your work is painful without trying to avoid the pain. And so they will do the minimum they have to do to get the sweet out of your hand. So the pulling away engaging just as much as they have lost on the other hand, the chest snatching the paycheck and going back to the home in safety right. So that's the emotional internal struggles going on with all of us. How can I get just the minimum engaged the minimum amount that I have to. So I can get the sweet right. So I'm withdrawing. So I can reach out and grab my paycheck. That's the internal struggle that is the foundational struggle we have when we're employing people poorly trained grabbing the slate as far as I'm retreating and so that's the emotional behavior that we want to try and get to want to try and deal with in our businesses right to engage staff. Now if that sounds really hard. Don't worry. It's on how to solve it right. Now another piece of the puzzle is this. How is it that we as humans know we should do the right thing yet we do the rock. We do the wrong thing. And then justify to ourselves that our pool behavior is justified and we then blame the boss or the customer or other people or family or past that they are the ones to blame for why it's OK for me to do it the wrong outcome. By blaming someone else in this thing allows me to self justify my actions. So that I feel good and right about all my decisions of poor outcomes. So hopefully you will keep up with me there. This is this. So we do the wrong thing yet we can justify to ourselves what's OK k that I do the wrong thing. So what's going on in our brain and everyone's brain. That allows it to happen. So it really helps in thinking that you must understand this is the cornerstone of personality of how it works in every human being. Of course, people have a psychopaths and have psychiatric illnesses a difference. But if few. So even who's this kind of normal. This has helped us out. Lg works right. And if you don't understand this instead of me explain to you these concepts you'll never ever actually be able to build the right culture or get the right engagement. If you truly don't know how people actually work. How the human condition actually works and it's called the ego and super ego tussle. Right So let me just explain what these concepts are and Payments. Now keeping this simple is a lot more nuance is a good thing. But these are the main thrust of how it actually works and requires you to keep keeping honest, it's going to be. And I know it could be an intense topic but just trust me. That's how it works. OK So what is it. So it is what's called your essence. It's your it's you in a prisoner say that you're born with that you pretty much can't shift. So some people are introverted by nature some people are extroverted by nature some people are past focus people are people focused. Some people are just kind and loving and generous and whatever your essence is you. This is your it is a child just that's your personality that you were born with that you can't shift much. It's kind of fixed your ego is what's called the yield body guards as your guardian angel. It's easy to protect you. It's part of the human condition. It's often like it's like your subconscious. You can often hear that voice that talks in your mind is kind of this kind of your ego but its primary job is to protect you. It is to protect your self esteem. It's the reason that you always feel good about your actions as they to make you feel right. And good about everything you do right. That's what's called the ego, your super ego is less important, but it's going to happen to know this is your social advisor and it's what tells you what is the wrong or right way to behave in culture. And so that's also developed right. So that's just the one you know you shouldn't let me know you shouldn't steal you shouldn't kill right because those are social constructs, but those are things we learn in culture because the way we behave is different in families and cultures and countries we bought. So that's what's called super ego. So we're not too concerned about that. But what we are concerned about is what is the ego tussle. So very important once you understand this, you understand self-justification and hypocrisy and what drives people to behave the way they behave. And is this ego a tussle that we have to mitigate in our businesses right. So the ego is no job is to protect you and therefore, your self esteem right. So if we think about why do we even have an ego. What's going on. So the reason we have an ego is if we all truly understood how futile life was and how poor and weak we were as individuals there's a good chance most of us would give up on life like most of us are not that great really. And we all going to die. So why is it, we would just kind of have worked away to ignore all of that ignore all the stuff we do wrong ignoring all the stuff in the past or that has gone wrong. How hard. Life is how futile it all, is we're kind of normal. And so it's known that we live in what's called denial and is a lot to talk about. I'm not going to lie. I could talk for hours on it. So I'm not going to go there. But the concept is explained in the moment of your Buddhist is also the birth of your teeth. And so what that means is humans are evolved enough to know that we're going to die right. So since you're old at 46. We should all be aware that we're going to die. But we need to think about it. And so this is the way the subconsciousness is due l.a. has evolved through our evolution is it. The ego has been has developed over time mass that reality that we're going to die. But it's created this duality in us that we are able to be deceptive right because we have developed the mechanism to always be deceitful to ourselves first. And it's done in order in essence, for us not to get depressed about the future state of existence. But this jealousy is what allows us to then also create hypocrisy which is which rose to the ego and self justification. But it's a lot to talk about. So I can't go into it all too much. Suffice to say there's the ego tussle that you must understand. It's just a self-protection business self-protection mechanism. So sort of static into to recap if we want to go to business status as a low stress as possible. It's basically your team to do as much work as voluntary as possible. And if you think the carrot and stick approach is all that there is then you've got it all wrong because you want to do it voluntarily. So what we're trying to explain is if you can understand the fundamentals of how humans operate then you know how to design your business to get the beast the beast out of people voluntarily something to wrap it up again. Just try coming at a different angle. It's new. People are irrational and emotional. This is because our brains are hard wired to want the good stuff the endorphins of doing what's called pleasure activities coffee videogames exercise whatever it is that makes us feel good work situations are often the opposite of that. They in they induce stress and anxiety, which leads to cortisol which leads to the fight or flight hormones any notions of avoiding and removing oneself from being engaged right. So people are more motivated by pain avoidance than pleasure seeking. So if your work situation induces pain, then your workers will opt to avoid pain as much as possible and withdraw however. This is where it gets really interesting. OK And the Indian avoidance of pain. The ego plays a trick on a person's subconscious. So rather than the ego telling them. It is rather than the voice in the head telling our emotions. The reason you don't want to engage in doing the right thing is because you lack the competence that the capacity or the capability, because you're lazy or unskilled or mean or whatever the ego does not tell the US. The reality of the situation because it would be damaging to our ego right because you think about it. People do the wrong thing because they lack capacity capability or competency right. But we don't tell ourselves that what the ego does because the body bodyguards look after your self esteem that makes you always wants to make you feel good. It's his job to make you feel good to get happy hormones because the brain is motivated by trying to feel good of what I feel good. So what it does is it finds a way to justify your behavior by deflecting blaming and transferring accountability and responsibility to someone else. So blames the boss blames other workers blames the customer blames the weather blames the pattern hime blames the past blamed everyone else apart from taking responsibility. That's my lack of capacity competency and capability. The ego does not like taking responsibility because it might damage the it in its job is to always protect it. And I look after it right. So that's what you're fighting. So if you do stuff that induces stress and pain and doubt the ego is going to go full protection mode for people and make them disengage and withdraw and if people are withdrawn they're not going to be willing. So then you said then you left me with that that carrot and stick approach where they're avoiding pain together. That's not the business that you want long time to build. That's going to be stressful. So just say if you think it's all nonsense does this give me give me a nice little story that I used to really illustrate this, I call it the coffee cup story. We can all agree that littering is wrong and bad. We all agree stylist is just that doing a missionary scenario right. So let's say you've been out of work for a few months and you're going to a job interview. And you need to get this job. Get a haircut. You've put on some good clothes you're on your way. You just had to get a cup of coffee and feel good to drink your coffee on the way. Getting close to the building an empty coffee cup in your hand is no bean inside and you don't want to walk into the interview with an empty cup of coffee and trying to really be better. You need the job. So you just throw it on the ground like you need the job to pay your rent pay your bills to keep paying the mortgage to keep a hit over the roof of your family. So you do the wrong thing and you let it. But you justify it to yourself by that the outcome is worth doing the wrong thing. The greater good, right. And is a perfect example of how the ego justifies the wrong thing. It's still wrong to let a but we say so well in this situation, it was OK because I needed to lift it to get the job. All need, especially reasonable and debt. But then example is what we all do every day is how we can justify doing the wrong thing by going. Are you. But this is why. And that was the right thing to do. Well, the answer is I get we saying you still let it. It was the wrong thing to do. I can see why you did it doesn't justify it. I understand it. And it's that reality of going high. Still wrong. I know I did it. I'm going to do it anyway. And this is the human condition and it's wonderful. So there is Reynolds as wonderful as because this collection is kind of it's kind of fun right. That we can actually work it all out. And yet we can still understand it. It's just bringing this sort of understanding to our staff and being understanding we're all human and we're all guilty of it. So what we do if we all stand back. Look at a situation where we are. We have to take responsibility. So this is more talking to all of those guys right now. I can look at your situation right now. And you will stand back to do that helicopter you looking down where you are. In reality, it's always a lack of capacity competency and capability that has landed us in this situation where we are right. And so then you'll be most you know, planning staff, family partners, whatever. You'll be blaming deflecting transferring now there is bad luck and timing will it. But have a the reality is you just have to accept what it is and deal with it and accept that everything where you are is because you're lacking capacity kind of incumbency. And that's OK. Don't transferring the blame to other people and also extend it to your staff. OK So now we're lying be the real problem is that it's a lack of those three things. Is it a competency and capability into the real problem is is it. We're trying to avoid those real feelings. So we always want to feel good. And we want to avoid the reality that we are a disappointment to ourselves. Trust me it is an answer to this and I'll keep this saying I just had to land a few more things right. Right So there is a reality is we're trying to avoid that we're disappointing to ourselves. So how can you build a business that doesn't reinforce that were disappointing to our sales and make people feel bad. So I'll start one or two of what I don't know this and you were accidentally constantly making your staff feel pain and they constantly want to avoid paying any toll you can use as the carrot and stick approach. So I don't want to build a business with any reason that you work to get paid as I started out. People move away from pain and try and snatch that the sweet right. They try and disengage as much as possible to get paid. It's not what we want. So if your business is this way. And the only motivator is money. And if you're being yelled at then you have an intrinsic business that is just always going to be a struggle. So what's the answer. Luckily for us some very, very smart people have no idea how to get the best out of people. Right So it's time for a type of nozzle story. Not my story, but it's a story about a skilled crash visit now. It's called throw that she is quite famous if you know it. Now the cheer is rip as it is meaning a skilled cross cases making a quality cheer but the quality doesn't to be cheap can be something of value. So it's not working at McDonald's making a burger right. It's not. It's not stacking shelves at the supermarket. They're just not adding value to a person's life skill and then that was really not like not like making a furniture for being a doctor or stuff that's adding real value in his skill. So the story about the cheer is that's right there is the skill to trade space and goes to work in the factory, making the cheese that there is a good trade. And you know. But during the course of the week from Monday to Friday. He's angry and sad and bitter and they'll be happy and glad and joyful not be tired not be awake. It might be might Yellen Shelton cycling onwards he's a normal person right because up and down, up and down. The rhythms of life as night follows day is high tide follows low tide. Same as with every motion dropped didn't work engage disengage right. This is where it gets really interesting. So at the end of the week, the trades person still makes beautiful, which is why so during the course where he was up and down. They still make beautiful cheese. The saying is really, really important very important. So please listen right now what produces the best of people, despite themselves wood produces the best of people, despite themselves. Think about that the person can still take pride and joy that they make right cheese at the end of the week because they're doing something skilled that they respect and enjoy. Work produces the best of them despite themselves. Very important concept to understand that your work is very, very work is very important to people's self-esteem and it's because of this competence leads to confidence. And this is the cornerstone of self-esteem. You must know this, especially for your children. Will your children young people at work, everyone. The cornerstone of self-esteem the foundation from which you build your life upon is competence. If you know you are truly competent at us. And at your job, that's a skilled job. What if there is computer programming accounting sales, marketing trade, whatever it is. If you're truly competent that will give you confidence that you know you can take control of your future. You can take those skills to another employer, you can earn money. And it will give you this deep seated confidence that you have control over your destiny. But it's deep confidence leads to confidence must know this Ryan. So that trade person knows that his success to this life is good. He makes beautiful cheese and his pride in that is and isn't good self-esteem good confidence that's why he goes to work and does it despite so work produces the best of him despite himself right. But he was competent, very important things to understand about the human condition. This is the foundation of how you start overcoming doing the wrong things right. Competence very, very important right first principle. The second one is this is the next big one. These are the two big points right now. One is this right everyone needs a noble goal worth fighting for. This is very, very important. Please, please pay attention right now everyone needs a noble goal worth fighting for. So let me explain that I can't give you a little too extreme examples to illustrate the point. Like I say you got one guy here with Flagstaff and they make and sell cigarettes. We know that people die from. And they get lung cancers and have been a constant smoking. But this guy doesn't care. He's making money now. So he goes out of business. No one keeps kind of makes you all the staff happy because they're like, well, he's just. Just he to make money for and shell's kind of sucks, you know. And now he's going to mistake go on business apart from people addicted to cigarettes. But no one else. He's right. Isn't this just extraction based. This is money no keys right. Well, let's say, on this hand this guy got five staff, but they're making devices to stop babies dying from the sudden infant death syndrome. So he goes out of business. So his products didn't make it right. Even kids right. All the staff care the community kids, because this guy was noble they didn't succeed. But it was worth working for the people liked working in it because it was a noble goal with fighting for it means their efforts were worth something. Because this business was adding value changing that we were making an impact right. This was about adding value. This goal. This is about extracting just making money for his lifestyle. That's not motivating because what we want. We want to give. How do we can we get people to defer self gratification and it's this, you need to give people a noble goal with fighting for. Because that's what we'll get people that desire to come to work for you. Ron we ever need to know we'll go with filing for. So what's your business like to be. Have you thought about why do you want to come work for you. Is it just carrot and stick. Or is it some high pay. That's why it exists something that's good. So we'll come to that in a minute. Help Henry can we get the so when you employ people is the work rewarding. Are they just stacking shelves lose the work you do fulfilling. Are they making work where they can show their competence where they can feel good about their work. Are you training them to be highly competent. Well, what are you what are you providing what environment. What work. Are you doing. It's a learning to absolutely become highly competent to improve the confidence to improve your engagement. It does you in organization have a noble goal where the just extraction based or right is this exception based you're up against it. What's the noble goal with fighting for. They might sell me just to try to do this. There's no noble goal. Well, this was mine right. I worked out long time ago in my 20s, the quality of my life depends on the quality of my relationships right. Should you relationships equals a shitty life quality relationships equals a quality life. So why would side of people say this is Hollywood. So life is hard. I'll work as hard. So let's work for good people and do good work. So I can pay you well. I want to pay you as much as I can. So in order to do that, we have to be the best we can be so that we can work for the best people who don't mind paying what we want to charge. So if you don't help me to achieve that, then you are working against yourself. Just take a moment to ponder that statement. I've just laid out how to intentionally get someone to self motivate and tell themselves off and push themselves to start achieving a noble goal. If you don't help me to achieve it, then you are working against yourself. Now they said so the noble goal is we want to have quality relationships. So that life is quality. That's a noble goal right. That's something that event can go. Yeah, I'd like work to me, please. And I'd like to wait for good people what's right. Good work and get paid well. Those are good things. No one's going to say that's wrong. I can't support that guys yet. I want that. I want to be in tris business because life is hard work is hard. But if I'm working with good people doing good work and getting paid well that's a good. That's good for me. So if I don't help the boss achieve that, then I'm actually working against myself. That's an amazing statement. That's an that's the place we want to be the place you want to be is you want a person starting the internal conversation about the short term self gratification you want them to start internalize the conversation about your future self will be happy if I do. If you aren't going well it's actually amazing. You know I can encourage you to start again and reflect that this is a well this is that statement. If you don't have me to achieve this, then you are working against yourself, because that can then stop the inner monologue of life to the person how I need to do what's asked of me that's helping me achieve the outcomes of good relationships good work. Good pay How's it look. CNN reality. So you analogy because this is the theory. And so then telling you this. How I did it. OK So here are the rules of the going to make this happen. That's why I tell people. This is how we work in this place right. The core principle that this company is based upon my core the core principle is the quality of our life is based upon the quality of our relationships. That's it. I won't have a good. One of a good work environment with good people doing good work. Piper everyone goes up on top of that. Now how do we achieve that right. So the values here are friendly, reliable professional. That's the way we talk to each other. That's the way we engage with our customers. We get to that make sense. Nice and easy like that my exceeded my expectation of you. So that's why I'm now telling staff is my expectation of you is to make every customer. I repeat in fearing customer. So that's the deal right. Right So I want to do good work. Good people good relationships. So the tangible outcome of that is that customers repeat in fear, because if you do if you're doing that Roy will get more repeat work and they'll tell more people about us. So that's the major bring it to life. You got to be friendly, reliable professional knows another key maxim that you must start instilling in staff in order to really make a customer move a patent, a few minutes really manage expectations with customers alone. And the big one that really annoys people is you know this money money right. So we'll continue on time. But we're friendly, reliable professionals have given right given us we're going to do good work going to be reliable. Best of goodwill. But this is the next big one. We have the right to be paid. But we don't have the right to spend the money without approval. So think went wrong. Yes you've got the right to be right. No, you don't have the right to spend money without somebody's approval. Now, the reason I'm fighting this because I feel this is a really, really big deal. I got. So if you've now told your staff you don't have the right to spend the customer's money. Until you've talked to them face on the Jobs has to make them aware of what the budgets for the job search for a new box and five hours work. Right So they're now on site and they can see if you're going to cost $1,000. You've not put the tribe's person in a very difficult position because now there is now there's a tension because this conflict because at some point someone's got to let the owner know that these guys are going to pay double the price. Now this is where it all goes wrong in actually delivering outcomes. So then this is when culture goes wrong. That's when processes aren't followed. So then this is how you start overcoming this is there. How you get staff to stop following prices and policies and doing the right thing. So this concept right. So as we talked about people avoid paying first, they don't move towards pleasure. We need to understand that. So therefore, you must put in processes that allow people to avoid paying. It's called psychological safety emotional distance. Now look, I'm very good with contracts right. I've got no trouble calling the customer and having that discussion. Most people do not like conflict. So if you've now put the burden of that conflict in conversation onto the trade space and the cool the customer and resolve it. Guess what they're going to avoid it and not do it. And your price is broken. So therefore, your price was wrong. The price you needed to put in place is psychological safety emotional distance to allow the outcome to happen. Sometimes people will be fined for and the customer may have been having that conversation at price somewhat. So therefore, in your business, you need to have other pathways that allows people to avoid conflict so that the outcome is achieved with a customer. And that is the critical thing to understand. You must have other pathways in place that allow them to avoid conflict. So the outcome is delivered. So therefore, if you provide other pathways because people are good. They will do the right thing. If they can avoid pain and is comfortable. So we just hit other people they could call that would then call the customer. So they could call off the office lady and she could call the customer on perhaps explain it or they could call it operations manager and they could explain it or the worst case scenario, they get to call me and not explain it. But the deal was I had to call somebody in if I can call somebody then they will. Right because the most important thing is that the customers talk to their expectations and minutes, but they don't focus on that focus on what I did was creating psychological pathways to allow people to avoid pain. It's still allowed the customer expectations to be me so that people can avoid pain. They will do the right thing. So don't put people in and don't put your staff in a position where there is pain in conflict because they will avoid it. And then you won't get your systems complied with. So you got to put in measures to ensure operational success that allows pain avoidance because I don't like stick and carrot not like yelling come a bullet. Having meetings and having a go at people just terrible at 25 people too complex to move parts too easy to be easy. So I know we all want paperwork filled out whenever we want every job. I now we want a perfect. Do you think entities like Naval staff do to annoy you. If one is doing the best they can if one is doing the best they can every day to be the best version of themselves every day. Right We talk about it now that vision may be a far cry from what you wanted to be. What are you going to do about it. How are you going to help them to be the best version of themselves. You're going to yell yell at them and shell them into the gallon. That does not work. It will just withdraw and go to getting the patient doesn't work. So my answer was, how can I help people to be the best version of themselves until they are repeatable system that delivers me the outcomes that I require. And so as always, I just put I know we just put people in charge of it. So for example, your notebook figures right. But I was 25 staff every day. Some people I can upload their time sheets out right rather making a big deal about it. My office people you know pay them whatever 25 30 bucks. Yeah she would just call the ones up that hadn't done it and do it for me takes off. Now Stop probably going easy on the staff at one taking the. I don't mind taking the phone call because the patient's going to do it for him. So let's take the phone call ours are in town every morning pain is gone staff are happy we're moving on my couch is being followed up with gas certificates right. There's a constant stress to get stops to get certificates right. So here's what I did. So rather than fighting it one of our guys as of right guess for a very good man. He was happy to do it. I guess it's because I would pay him after hours. So he would get extra money to do nothing else. So the deal was I hit with this tradespeople was OK. What was the name he'll do the case. It's but if all you do is take the photos of the work. And of the guests, and you pull the paperwork out and write it up and see and do it. And done. And on the high risks, one obscene amount are actually checkers will comply to make sure it's right. And that's what I did. Right So the deal was that if the stops and take the photos. I have to go back and retake the photos in their own time. I wouldn't pay them right. But the staff could avoid the pain of the case. It. If all they had to do was take the photos for the pain of action was worth less than the pain of inaction. Right and for the high risk. It's like we've just seen bought back. But I'd just charge the customers $75 for a high risk pass the cost on, right. That was just the deal rather than yelling and having going and having a go at the stuff. I just allow them to avoid the pain and put a person in so that I could still get the outcome that I required right. Voluntary compliance. Wouldn't mind doing the right thing. So if you think about it, it just cost me money a bit more money. But I would rather in a bit less and have less streets. So you think about 25 staff to have so everyone close paying 40 40k and expenses wages bills. So make about 10 guy K cash coming in a day to make those expenses. That would be very stressful. It wasn't all just working like a military operation run in order to make sure that didn't just overwhelming the stress. I was happy to install at least profit by putting prices and people in place to ensure operational excellence and I can tell you when you have 25 staff on making such a least money period stop me with them. I got five staff, but I'm making some much more money overall that it doesn't matter what my stress levels are low click of voluntary compliance. And that's what some call it. And if you get it. All right people, the right culture code out country customers getting a restocking contract cash from profit. So the whole thing works right. So to wrap it up. You've got to put systems in place that allow pain avoidance will stop. Right So if you put insistence that take away pain from your customers they pay you. It's the same thing if we stop taking my pain. If you take away pain you get the outcomes you want right. So if you look at your organization if you're constantly having a pain point look at what is going on as to why the people are avoiding the pain of complying let's focus on how to get compliance. Focus at the pain of compliance and how can you remove the pain to get compliance, and then put measures in to reduce the pain avoidance to achieve compliance getting you put in measures that show you care about the goals is important right. So what's the speak it is respected. So if you want to lead your organization to achieving goals. And you have to show you're actually living it right. Because I wanted a cast to customer to be patient perfect. We agreed. That was the ultimate goal of how we going to achieve great relationships. So we would call up every game we charge up the next day to make sure they were happy we were on time. If you get the outcome your optic will be friendly slots. All right, slip slides. Now we was right. So we were checking that they were actually did no actually living the values delivering the outcomes to the customer but because this what we could be checked every day a few jobs to go back to get it right. But over time, the culture builds everyone knows how to achieve an outcome that works. Minutes how about 25 staff in eight years, even through the 1,000 it takes a different decision and while still as busy and as difficult. It's kind of fun. It wasn't that hard because I had nice relationships with everyone. And so it was pleasurable. So the measure of success is that I had some staff that were with me the whole eight knowing each and every staff was 4 for five years. And there's a good saying is people don't leave businesses, people leave people right. Let's say they say right. So we don't charge up. So we have enough space in calling every charge up job the next day to make sure we leave on time friendly, reliable on a physical act is Beilein the emotional driver behind it. So this is very important to think about what's actually going on psychologically inside a person's head what it means is like, no tradesperson wants to get a negative report. Why not just take a phone call from the office or meeting I what, if any person is not happy. You don't want that because I'm checking the office checking. They know why I'm shaking and even performance be there when they're being checked right. When the instinct is coming. You do a bit of work. Was he just a friend before Peter when you're being chased put in a crisis to allow the internal voice and the transfusion to remind him to do the right thing. So they can avoid the pain of being told off. That's what you want. You want the internal voice remind you of wanting him to do the right thing. So they can avoid being told off. Northern teens might be coming up right firing line. All right. You don't want the avoidance of pain from being yelled at right. So if you tell your staff of they will then blame you for your argument that allows in the deferment of responsibility. So what you want is self-regulation from filing it to up from then. Noble goal is the ego is driven by wanting to feel good. Therefore, if the ego has failed to do the right thing of what is required to achieve quality relationships and quality of life is the right thing to do for long term happiness and value. You've shown a logical pathway of how to achieve quality relationships by doing good work by getting good outcomes, which means you not get the ego or money to hasten that if we don't do the right things for the business. Real working against ourselves and that is the one process, you want to create. You want to self checking system that encourages the right behavior because the ego does not want that may give you the space and to be towed off from failing to do what is right and easy, especially when you put in. So many processes in place to allow succeeds the only accept. The only place the ego has to get from there is acceptance. That we have to self improve and that is exactly what you want. You want the ego to be in a psychologically safe place to go. I have to improve my capacity. My capability and my competency. So I can achieve the right outcome. That's amazing right. By putting a psychological safety that encourages the right outcomes. And checks the values from the noble goal. You can get the ego to go into the place where it goes. I have to self improve and that is what you want. So to wrap it up. People are emotionally driven people are awesome. And they are going to let you down all the time. And that's like people avoid paint first, and then they move to pleasure people will defer self gratification for a noble goal with filing for you need to provide the ability for them to be highly competent to allow them to be confident. Foundation's your business must define a noble goal worth fighting for. You must live the values in all your deeds and words every day with everyone. You must be a shining example of what it means to live a life of quality relationships to be the leader that this must think about psychological safety to allow avoidance of pain. Then you must put in processes that allow avoidance of pain, but achieves operational outcomes. Then you must also put in processes that inspects and shakes your core values to show staff who truly you truly care about the values also that you can get the ego to tell the individual. We have to improve that we don't. We're actually working against ourselves. And what you will find over time most people will self-improvement rise to a higher standard some others will need to be moved on. And that's OK. It's important to make the distinction. Not everyone is ready for the growth, you need to actually improve because of or their internal emotional struggles still going on their personal life. But if you put all the other all the other checks and balances in place very quickly how new staff come in with an achievement in a few months. They will see the culture and values expectations and achieve and actually rise quite high appropriately. Those that don't you need to move out quite quickly. And that's OK. Sort of safety. I think that as I read that up like a few nights and safety talk like that. Yeah, it's not a good one. So you're kind of living your values as providing non-monetary non-monetary benefits to make people feel valued. So for example wait. I had a health policy. Cancer and disability. Just one person a year could claim it was never used that someone got cancer or a serious illness. They were paid. I think it was quarter of a million right away. So just the fact that that policy was in place allow them to know a counselor. We pay for counseling those guys getting the eye sees anger management lots of staff breakouts whatever that having a free counselor on staff just someone that they could go to. And turn to and talk to. Obviously we just kind of though never ask, what is going on, right. Little stuff like that. But I'm conscious that I got six minutes to guys or wrap it up nicely. And it is time now to ask your questions if you've got any. It was quite and then Keane's topic and so identified this on the practicalities of how you achieve because it's all about an intrinsically self made by these people to do the right thing. And so I wanted just to touch on. I really don't want the carrot and stick approach. Take the difference between a 16-year-old apprentice right. They're not like you know their brains are developed enough right to be to be aware of all these things that's different. But we're talking about adults say that you won't engage tribespeople all those people doing the right thing. If the only lever you have is carrot and stick you're always going to have a stressful business that you have to keep driving. Day after day, year after year. So if you go back and listen to all this. It's all about getting people to self drive your business for you from internally that they own because they're trying to improve themselves because you've given them a noble goal with finding for right or wrong great relationships good work. Good people good pay. And then they'll come to work and start doing the right thing, because if they don't, they're working against themselves. And that is what you want to go into business. And then the thing becomes a joy to work because you know you're working because now you're working with everyone to become the best version of themselves. And that is leadership right. There's actual leadership. So I started. If you don't speak you'd remember the greatest place to start. This is you have to start that journey yourself right because you really have to. You have to lead your people to be the best version of yourself every day. And what if you're still a long way down that journey. And if you've got a long way that cannot to be the best version of yourself every day that you'll stop interact with. It's because if you can't live it. I see it like, well, that's as high as a standard guy in the life of the merchant he doesn't pay his bills he yells he shouts he does. He's always pull behaviors. No one will. No one will rise higher than you in the organization because you'll set the bar as to the is the high standard of what can be achieved. So you've got to go as high as you can. So we just can stop trying to rise up to where you're at. And so the finished junior in staff management is actually internally on yourself to be the best version of yourself to be an example to others of what you want to lead in this business. It's hard. In this you know this takes years. You don't get it overnight. But now I would like to hear your questions before buying. I close it off. The audio will go out the notes will go out. Feel free to share it. Hope it was valuable. Let me know if it was or wasn't valuable. This is too intense. We have daily online training actually on the products still had these coaching sessions every fortnight. A lot of this is in my books written about. So if you had copies 9 bucks not much. We'll go through. But thank you for those who tuned up. It wasn't a long session and that was intense. I do hope you enjoyed it. Have you got value. I welcome you to the other table for them to make this more deep questions. And if you want me to give you a call in and talk it through more with you. I'll be happy to. Well, all I can I've really got value out of it. And hopefully I will get to see you in two weeks time. All right, thank you guys. Bye bye.